Successful Musician Podcast Episode 63
Interviewee: Christian Ray Flores
Interviewer: Jason Tonioli
Jason Tonioli
Welcome to the podcast today. My name is Jason Tonioli, and I have a special guest with me, Christian Ray Flores. As we were talking earlier, Christian, you are the type of person that does a whole lot of things. You’re a high-performance coach, you’re an entrepreneur, international recording artist, musician, philanthropist. I know you’ve done a lot of really amazing things to help people. I know you’ve got a nonprofit in Africa, did some amazing things in Ukraine, which that, I mean that’s just amazing to do that. But your story has kind of intrigued me. You, you started out life in Chile and then you moved to Eastern Europe and now you’re here, you’re living in Austin, Texas now. I don’t even know how to introduce, you know, you’ve got so many different things. So welcome and I’m super excited to chat and share your story with people. I think it’s going to inspire a lot of people.
Christian Ray
Honored to be here. Jason, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Jason Tonioli
So, Christian, let’s maybe just dive in. I know you speak four languages. You started in Chile. I think let’s just start out by sharing your journey of how in the world one goes from Chile to Eastern Europe. Just give us that journey that you’ve been on and where you’re at today.
Christian Ray
I’m in Chile. My parents decided to settle there. My dad’s Chilean. That’s why. They met in college, actually in Russia. My mom was Russian. So, they moved to Chile and then we’re there and I’m 5years old and my parents are Marxist, both of them – like second generation, third generation Marxists, like real, real Marxists. And there was a coup in Chile and the socialist president that was actually democratically elected was overthrown by this military group. And then they proceed to arrest tens of thousands of people, put them in secret prisons, and concentration camps. People disappeared, killed, tortured, you know, by the thousands. So, my dad was one of those people. He was in a concentration camp and my mom was in hiding with me and my little sister. I was 5 years old. He was lucky because they released him and we didn’t, he was also lucky as he got into a refugee facility that was actually not widely available for people because the military could pursue you anywhere they wanted to. But there were a couple of places where the United Nations had a deal with the government that it was there for expats. My mom was an expat. So, my dad got into the refugee facility and was protected by the military because of her. So, we spent a few months there and, you know, it’s scary, and there’s a bunch of families there, and we got asylum in Germany, in Munich, and we went there for a while. Then when I went to Russia for a while, it was awful. We’re talking poverty on the level of communal apartments, that kind of thing. And then my dad got a contract, an offer in Africa and Mozambique right after they got their independence from Portugal. So, we went there.
Jason Tonioli
How old were you when that happened?
Christian Ray
Seven years old. By age seven, I had moved to four different countries on three continents. And that was sort of the beginning, right? It was. It was pretty crazy. And I was, you know, it was just a shock for me. My dad tells me I was silent for a year. Like, socially, I didn’t want to talk to people because I was confused. So. And then a year in, there was a civil war that started. So, they, you know, and it was mostly in the bush, but we had bombings in the city, that kind of thing. So that’s sort of the backstory.
By age 9, I’d already learned four languages because of those things. Moving, moving, moving. And when I was a teenager, my parents got divorced, so there was another blow, and we had to go back to the Soviet Union. Russia at the worst times. Right. Like, the whole thing was basically crumbling. So, we go from a tropical place to a very cold place, a one bedroom apartment. I slept in the kitchen for a few years, you know, starting over, basically, and raised by a single mom. Then all of it changed after college and that’s where music sort of enters the scene in a major way.
Jason Tonioli
So, you’re in Russia all through your teenage years, then?
Christian Ray
Yeah.
Jason Tonioli
For college, where did you end up going to school?
Christian Ray
I went to a local school called Friendship University, and it’s. It was a very prestigious place. And I got a master’s in economics.
Jason Tonioli
Where did you go to school?
Christian Ray
So, I went to an international university called Friendship University, and I got a degree in economics, a master’s degree in economics. Everybody expected me to go to Banking and Trade or international trade or academia. All my friends went there. And I was. I was musical my whole life and I sang. I break dance when I was a teenager. So, I was massively, massively invested in performance in general, at a great voice, and had this exposure to this very international sort of influences musically. Somebody told me, you should. You should do something with that professionally. And I mean, it’s one of those things. A friend told me that. And when he said that it’s one of those things where you’ve never considered it even as a possibility. And just because somebody mentioned it, it’s almost like they gave you permission to dare to dream something like that. So that’s how it sorts of showed up.
Jason Tonioli
I think I see it more and more the older I get, how people just let themselves be held back because they feel like they need permission to be great or do the thing. In the wizard of Oz, if you remember, um, at the end of. I think it’s the. The lion gets a medal from the wizard, if you remember, in the old, old Oz. And all of a sudden, like, the wizard gives that. The lion, the cowardly lion permission to. To be brave all of a sudden. Or, you know, you’ve got the. I think it’s the scarecrow that gets the diploma. And all of a sudden, because you have this stupid piece of paper, you’re given permission to be smart now. And it’s like, you were smart. And I think the whole point of that movie is you were great before anybody.
Christian Ray
That’s right.
Jason Tonioli
Gave you the medal or gave you the stupid diploma that you had to pay and suffer through. And I’m not dissing school or anything else, but I see far too many people hold themselves back, especially in the music side, because they don’t think they’re good enough or they have this imposter syndrome that they just don’t think they’re as good as they really are.
Christian Ray
And also, I think it’s just objective fear. Right. Look, the odds of success in the music business are smaller than the odds of success with somebody with a master’s in economics when it comes to. But what is success at the end of the day, then Right. Is stability the ultimate success or a growth in the career ladder? Is it worth maybe risking? Those are the big questions usually.
Jason Tonioli
Right. And as I’ve interviewed, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of people on this podcast, I think one of the most interesting things that I’ve been able to just get different perspectives on is what. What do you view as success? I mean, you’ve come from, like ultimate poverty, you know, Marxist socialism. Like, I mean, you’ve. You’ve experienced pretty much the low. I mean, I don’t. I haven’t met anybody actually in person like this that had somebody in the family in a concentration camp, essentially. I mean, yeah, it’s hard to get much lower than that. And, you know, I’m curious to what. What is your view of success now versus maybe what, you know, I’m guessing like 30 plus years ago, your version of success was, did I eat lunch? You know, did I even eat? Probably sometimes, right?
Christian Ray
Yeah, it was just really subsistence, really was, Was, you know, are we okay? Basically, right? Because when you grow up in a place where upward mobility is really in the cards, so to say, it’s. It’s very different. But I had this bug, right? I loved America from afar. I mean, I wrote a book about it, Little Book of Big Reasons to Love America. You can go check it out on Amazon. Because I was getting this sick. Almost like this frequency, the signal. Even when we were in Africa, we would watch these shows that were American shows, and I go, it’s like a different parallel universe, okay? What? I’m human, they’re human, they’re living a very different life. And so, I would get those things. And then, of course, because I spoke the languages and I read a bunch of books, I became almost like a learner of the sort of free enterprise part. Of course, what also helps is that I was studying economics so I could study the theory. The economic theory behind socialism and Marxism and then the economic theory behind capitalism and free market enterprise.
I had sort of these almost like theoretical underpinning as well, you know, and then at the same time, I had visceral, real life, immersive experience of what the socialist system brought. And I wanted out. I want nothing to do with it, basically. So, you know, it puts a fire in you when you have that kind of scarcity and lack of opportunity and you become. Either you just comply and then you become a victim and perpetual victim of the system, or you become a rebel against the system, and I became a rebel against the system. I had that fire in me.
Jason Tonioli
And I’m curious from your perspective. I mean, I’ve actually never talked about politics on this and I don’t want to talk about politics, but just from a theory of socialism. I mean, you came from two different locations, and you’ve studied it on the macroeconomic level. I’m just curious to know what you think are some of the things that need to be avoided or people need to be aware of when it comes to, to kind of that, that philosophy of life or how government should run. And I’m just curious, you know, again, not getting any political anything. But you’ve lived it.
Christian Ray
The book that I wrote is actually not political. And the idea of the book is that I try to sort of show people from an outsider’s perspective, the immigrant’s perspective, and to show them that it’s really not necessarily even about people just waking up and deciding they’re going to have a system. It’s not that simple. That’s why nation building never worked and never will work. It’s culture, right? And culture is mystical, magical, it’s luck. It’s built over centuries. So how America was seeded culturally from the beginning, where people, the kind of people that went there, here and it was sort of either the desperate or the bold, the people that didn’t want to comply to their status quo, all the way to the freedom of religion and faith and free speech and the self-governance, the freedom to choose these layers and layers and layers where mistakes are not punished or vilified, but they’re actually applauded. Because that’s the spirit of America all the way to. You know how you can, you can read in the, in the founding documents, the pursuit of happiness is almost like the pulse, the DNA of the,
There are all these layers. Charity, philanthropy, this acceptance of immigrants. So, there’s not. It’s the most accepting place on Earth, you know, so there’s layers and layers. So, it’s almost like this constellation of things that came together here in the United States and then it creates the most prosperous nation on earth, the most free nation on earth. And so that’s basically the idea, right? And the socialism piece you asked. It’s actually not super complicated because it’s not really a system, it’s a theory. And the theory hasn’t been proven yet. It hasn’t really proved ever in the history of humanity to bring prosperity and freedom, inequality to people. It just never has so the theory is beautiful, and that’s why it appeals to people mostly, you know, that are younger because it’s so idealistic. But the solution has never worked, actually. Never. No one has ever proven it to be a successful experiment. And when people say, oh, the Nordic countries, no, they don’t have socialism. They have much more social sort of benefits and the taxes are much higher, but it’s not socialism and it ends up always being oppressive and violent. Always.
Jason Tonioli
Do you see seeds of that? I mean, I. I know with. Probably on both sides, they like to point fingers and call each other and say, oh, you’re doing. You’re trying to be socialist or whatever. I’m curious, do you see seeds of what you’ve experienced and studied? Are parts of that happening?
Christian Ray
Yeah, they are. And so, every chapter of my book, there’s a little bit of a warning. I’m like, hey, you need to watch out for this. Every chapter ends with that. Hey, I think we need to pay attention. This is actually not good for the country. So, yeah, I see a lot of that. I do.
Jason Tonioli
Yeah. Interesting. Well, tell me a little bit more about the music side, since this is a music podcast as well. When you started doing the music and realizing, oh, my gosh, I can, you know, I should go for this. Give us that story.
Christian Ray
It was basically. It was just. I was like, you know what? I can live in a shoebox. I’m single. I’m going to regret it for the rest of my life if I don’t try. But I was also very lucky, and I did have sort of almost like the secret sauce, right? I was lucky because the Soviet Union literally collapsed right before my eyes. I saw the tanks in the streets, attempted coups, all of that stuff, right? And then it suddenly became the most free marketplace on Earth because there’s literally no rules. The whole infrastructure, the whole system collapses. So, the news hasn’t come yet. So, it’s like the wild west of free enterprise. And even then, many of my friends became wealthy overnight during those times, especially if you have a degree in economics, you can probably do that more easily. But I still wanted to do music. It just grabbed my soul, right? So, I choreographed, and I got a break. I basically didn’t have anything to show for my talents. And at the time, there’s no home recordings available. You have to just be in a studio to record something even worth releasing. I would just hang out with musicians. I’ll be in the entourage, in the vicinity, in the orbit. And I would go to these parties or after parties, and I would just hang out, and I was just try to just be around them, right? And then one of those after parties, somebody comes over, this short guy, and he goes, are you. Are you like an artist or something? Because I looked. I mean, I fake it till I make it, right? I look the part. I’m like, yeah. And he goes, I have a studio. And there was like. At the time, this was post-Soviet. There were maybe three studios in the whole city. So it’s like the golden ticket, right? And he goes, if I give you some night hours to experiment and give you access to my studio, what would you do with that? And I said, I’d record some demos. He goes, okay, well, who’s going to write the music? I’ll write the music. Who wrote the lyrics? I’ll write the lyrics. All right, well, call me. We set something up. And I’ve never written music or lyrics in my life right before that. I went home and started writing music. And then I showed him the music, and he liked it, actually. And then we looked for a producer, a music arranger. And he gave me a guy who was almost always high, didn’t get the stuff. I want to find my own guy. And I was literally. I would say, look, you see the landscape is this. It’s like post-Soviet pop. I want to do R&B pop. And I would put him music, like, give him CDs and we’ll play. And I said, you see the beat with Bobby Brown, for example, or TLC or prints. Do you see this? Do you see that? And I said, this is the thing. This is the thing. You know, I want this. I don’t want any of the stuff that exists. I want something distinct. And so he’ll start coming over. You know, we rented an apartment together, and we would, like, work on beats and arrangements. And they. They’re usually really bad in the beginning, and then they get better. And so I wrote a few songs, and we arranged them, and we recorded them in the studio. And then I was like, okay, I need to. I have that mindset of distinctiveness, right? So, I’m a good dancer. I can choreograph if I can find some other dancers. So, the problem is that it’s the Soviet Union. There is no, like, there’s nothing there. But I was part of this break, dancing underground. And it was literally underground. We trained underground.
Jason Tonioli
You know, you had the ballet dancers and that was about it. That were.
Christian Ray
Yeah. At the time, yeah, ballet dancers didn’t fit my thing. Right. So, I found break dancers, like street dancers, and I put them in a rehearsal room, and I would choreograph something they net, but they’ve never choreographed anything for a show. So, it teaches them how to dance what they do, but in a much more show business, sort of much more polish. So, I’d choreograph all the numbers and everything. And I would train with them, you know, four or five days a week for three, four hours a day for probably six months before we had it. We could show it to anybody, but it was impeccable. There was basically nothing, no one has ever seen anything like it. And then we went, and we auditioned. We had like four songs, you know, in addition at a local club and there were maybe four of them in the whole city at the time. Right. And there was like the biggest, the hottest, like all of the elite was there and we auditioned there, and they hired us on the spot to work like four nights a week and that’s what we did. It’s luck. It’s a lot of hard work. It’s distinctiveness. We developed a signature sound right away. And then by the end of the year we had three record contracts offered to us. Bidding war.
Jason Tonioli
Amazing. And then so with that, I mean, did you sign with a label and then you ended up, you’re in Austin, Texas now. You’re not in Russia anymore.
Christian Ray
I’m not.
Jason Tonioli
Give us that story.
Christian Ray
Well, we did. Basically. We did. I did about a decade of that, and you can’t see it, but I have a wall here and framed. I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 albums that I released during that period of time. And we sold millions of albums, and we went from small clubs to medium venues to sports arenas, you know, like all over, across 15 different countries, all of the post-Soviet space. We had endorsement deals with Adidas, with guests with head and shoulders. So, it’s like a full-blown thing, right? Press, video, radio, magazines, newspapers at the time still. And then one day I’m going on tour, and I become very restless. I’m alone in the, in the, in this train car. I think the entourage, everybody was like somewhere in the dining room, car or something. I was alone, the cup of tea and I sort of had this very scary thought like, is there, is this all there is for me, that was sort of the idea. And basically I realized like there’s like a whisper of the soul that, you know, I’m going to be so bored with this. If I do it for the next 20 years, I’m.
I’m sort of done. I’m. I don’t like this because there’s dimensions of me that are not activated, you know, so I’m going all over this sort of post-Soviet space. But I speak four different languages. I have a master’s degree in economics. I want to do something. I would do something entrepreneurial. I want to do philanthropy as an artist. I realized by then that what I write in the next maybe five years maximum, I was maybe five years before that active, is going to be the only music my fans will want to hear after that. Because I already knew so many, so many of those artists my age and then older were my friends now that they would. I will probably play big venues for 20, 30 years. 22:24 You can make a living for a long time in music, especially if you establish yourself and you have a fan base that sort of grows up with you. But they don’t want to hear anything new you wrote. I couldn’t see myself going on stage and having five new songs and no one wants to hear them.
That was a depressive thought, you know. So basically, that was sort of the beginning of the transition. And I just went home, and I said to my management group and my managers and my partners and my crew, hey, I’m going to transition out, you know, like. And so it took me like three years to transition out. Super scary, obviously.
Jason Tonioli
So, did you transition? Did they bring in a new singer for all the music and somebody else?
Christian Ray
No.
Jason Tonioli
Sing all those songs or you just kind of wound it down and I.
Christian Ray
Just wanted down because I was the guy, I was the. It wasn’t a band, it was me, you know, and we produced another band that, that, that, that did happen, that we produced a girl band. It was like a Spice Girls type project that we started together with my two co producers and they basically just switched their investment and time and energy into this girl band and they. And that band went massive, just massive. So in one of the. The cost of me leaving is I had to give up my claim to that girl band, my share. And that cost me like 15 million or something like that, you know. That was painful. That was painful.
Jason Tonioli
Well, that’s amazing. So when you left, I mean, what year was. What had that been roughly?
Christian Ray
Probably 03 I left. Yeah.
Jason Tonioli
Okay. And then did you just. You left Russia or you came to.
Christian Ray
Yeah, we moved to the States. Another thing that happened sort of in that transition period is that we realized that my wife couldn’t stay in a cold climate because she has autoimmune issues. And I just couldn’t see my. I mean, she would just not do well for 20 years. Like, it just. It wasn’t a starter.
Jason Tonioli
Is she Russian?
Christian Ray
No, she’s American, so she’s from Wisconsin, ironically. But the cold is horrible for her, so I’m like, look, you left. And she left everything to be with me. Like, she literally. She was working in LA. She used to work for MTV, VH1, Universal Music. She sold everything to move to Russia in the 90s, okay. To be with me, had her children there. So she left her world for me. So I basically said, look, if you. You. I’m gonna leave my world for you, you know, and that’s it. So we moved to the States, and we decided to move only to places that have no snow, you know, And. And then I started. The first three years, I. Three and a half years I did philanthropy, and. Because I was very interested in that. And I got it. An offer to be director for Latin America for this big charity. We had projects in nine different countries. And then I went and we did ministry. I was. I became Christian while I was at the height of my career, actually, with that ministry, and at the same time started a production company for music and music videos in Hollywood for Eastern European artists.
Christian Ray
And that was awesome. That was fantastic. I mean, it was just one of those things. If. If I hadn’t left that previous career, I would have never been able to be friends with some of my idols. Like, I was working with icons that I used to listen to their music or watch their music videos. You know, like they directed Britney Spears or Bobby Brown or Michael Jackson or whatever. And then I was hiring them to do my projects. It was insane. You. I was hanging out with George Duke, who was a jazz legend, and I was friends, literally personal friends, with the guy in the Hollywood Hills, hanging out at his studio. I was working with. Oh, this is another interesting story. I remember when I was in high school in the Soviet Union, I would just doodle and I would draw things in my notebook. I’m pretty ADHD, so I couldn’t pay attention. And I would draw these logos of brands that to me, represented freedom and, I don’t know, success, abundance. Adidas. I liked Adidas. I like Nike. I like the logo For Kiss. And there’s like Michael Jackson used to have a logo with like, you know, like him, him standing on his toes, you know, like the pants and everything.
Christian Ray
So I’d write those things, just fantasizing. It was just daydreaming, right? And what really strikes me as fascinating, the things that I drew right. And at the time there was zero possibility of us, of me ever living or being in contact with those realities. Zero. And then a few years later, still in Russia, I had an endorsement deal with Adidas. My poster was in every Adidas store in the country. Wow, it’s just crazy. Or I had endorsements with guests and head and shoulders and I was doing all these things. And then when I moved to the States, I was like, okay, that life is over. No one here cares who I am. Oh, and before I went, sorry, I’m going to go back a bit, I was very much into philanthropy. So we did this big, big project for orphans, like thousands of orphans. And I would perform and bring all my celebrity friends and would do this massive thing. And one of the years Michael Jackson was coming to town and I said to my, my buddy who was the head of the charity that I was working with, what if we time this, this big festivity, the thing that we do for orphans every year, to around the concert, maybe reach out to his people.
Christian Ray
Who knows? I mean, it’s a Hail Mary. He shows up.
Jason Tonioli
No kidding.
Christian Ray
He shows up at the event, loves it. I’m like, you know, like obviously we’re, we’re virtual, but I’m like this close to him, like I’m talking to you, right? And it’s just the most surreal feeling to be able to organize something that attracts the idol of your musical idol, right? And then a few years later, fast forward, I was in LA working on a full album for a rock band from Eastern Europe, producing it in the studio of Kiss, being produced by the producer who produced arguably one of the best albums for Kiss, Psycho Circus. And I was hiring one of the former Kiss bands guitar players to do a solo for me. Like that’s how things transpired, you know. You know, so pretty crazy stuff.
Jason Tonioli
Wow, that’s crazy. So if you, if you could rewind your, you know, rewind the clock 20 or 25 years or so back and give yourself advice, what advice would you have for yourself? Because you’ve kind of lived that dream that I think most people never even achieved that level of, call it, you know, financial and fame and you know, whatever success you want to call it. I’m just curious, what advice would you give yourself then? And if you could, I would.
Christian Ray
I would probably say, 29:38 hey, good job doing something that most people wouldn’t dare to do. But, you know, find inner confidence. Don’t seek validation from the outside. Don’t pursue. Don’t compete with people, compete with yourself. The minute you start competing with other people, you feel insecure about yourself because there’s all kinds of really good people out there doing really amazing stuff. And one of my regrets is that I was so, you know, sort of in the flow of this incredible success that I started comparing myself to my friends, my buddies. who are rising at the same time. I didn’t collaborate with them enough. You know, I did a couple of duets here and there, but I’m like, I’m looking at it now going, you’re an idiot. Like, why didn’t you write songs with them? Why didn’t you produce albums for them, and they produce albums for you? Why didn’t you create something? Just fascinating collaborations, you know, that’s one piece of advice.
The other one is that for some reason I had this. It got in my head that I want to be just the artist, and I don’t want to. I don’t want to involve myself deeply into it. In the. On the business side of things, although I have the degree and everything. I have the capability, but it’s really more of a mindset. Right. And I stayed away from the business side of things, although I was perfectly capable of doing it, and that was a big mistake, you know, And I think many artists sort of feel that their artistry is almost diminished if they are. If they become really involved in the business side of things. And I think it’s a huge mistake, and it was mine. My mistake as well, where I think I could have done much, much better financially. Not that I wasn’t doing bad, I was doing fine, but it’s almost like there’s an art to the business side, and I didn’t see it that way. You know, I saw it as something that is less than for me, and that was just dumb, you know, so now I find it to be beautiful and creative to be a business guy. And like, if I had that switched that on, I think I would have. Like, it’s. It’s even hard to imagine what would have happened.
Jason Tonioli
The two points, the collaborations and then the business, and. And I. I totally. It’s so funny because I think artists that we talked like really successful artists find that little business.
Christian Ray
Yeah, absolutely.
Jason Tonioli
They aren’t scared of it. I don’t think any of us feel like, oh, I’m this business or marketing guy. I mean, because it’s creative. But I do feel like a lot of people that maybe struggle or haven’t found, you know, we’ll call it the financial success. They do shy away from that, you know, business or just even learning. It’s almost like they’re, they’re offended by the, you know, the idea of even learning a little bit about what it’s.
Christian Ray
Yeah, there’s an arrogance there, I think I really do, you know. Yeah, I think I was definitely arrogant.
Jason Tonioli
What? I’m just curious, I mean, because you’re way more of a business guy than most of the people I’ve interviewed on here. What, what specific pieces of, you know, you say, I wish I would have learned the business. What, what are those two or three or four bullet point things that you, you’re like, man, I wish I would have studied or learned about or applied. You know, because you came from macroeconomics like you were full on.
Christian Ray
So I did, I mean, some things I did well. For example, as opposed to most artists in those times, 33:22 I retained full ownership of my intellectual property, which was a rarity at the time. Right. When we had sort of our first opportunities to be signed to a label. There was a bidding war and we negotiated really well, you know, between the labels. They sort of, we pitted them against each other, that kind of thing. Right. So, and so we did. Some of those things did come in handy quite a bit. Right. I would say if I were to think, okay, what are the maybe two, three things that I would have done differently? 33:49 I would have just been personally involved in every business discussion and negotiation we made because we made some amazing partnerships with brands, with TV stations, for example, and I would just get my hands dirty in the business models, inventing collaborations or deals. That would be a win-win that no one was exploiting at the time. You know, I’m a very creative, imaginative guy. I just didn’t apply that to that place. You know, that’s sort of the second. That’s one thing.
34:22 The other is the collaborations, co authorships, co publishing. I was more than capable. I just didn’t bother to create my own record label. And I should have. You know, we did really well with producing other bands. For example, that girl band that I, that we produced, like, it was, it was an epic thing and we, we, we did imagine it really well. So we picked like, five girls who could dance and sing a little bit, you know, and. And they would spin off a solo career. So it’s now two units generating revenue. Then it would spin off another solo career and replace the other. These two girls. And it’s like, it literally continued wave after wave for years after I left the project. So part of me was going, man, that was a. That was a missed opportunity. Right?
Christian Ray
But I guess that was the price I paid, right, for being free.
Jason Tonioli
Yeah, I. The creative partnerships. I love what you’re saying there. I think there’s a lot of opportunities. You know, I’ve been on the business side. I was in the business side, corporate side, for more than. More than a decade. And I think whether it be an ad agency world or even just a, you know, you’re talking Adidas, these big brands, but even the smaller brands, I think there’s this aura of, you know, hey, this creator or this artist isn’t willing to do the. You know, the business wants to. You know, the company or the corporate entity wants to do something awesome. They don’t know how to tell the artist, boy, it’d be really cool if you could come. Maybe it’s a meet and greet with clients. I remember when I was at the bank, we. You know, John Schmidt from the Piano guys, you probably never heard of him, but an amazing, amazing artist. But we would bring him, and we’d have, like, a. We’d sponsor his concert and bring our clients out, and he’d sell tickets, but we’d help him off. As a partnership, we offset a lot of the costs and the risk that he had in doing a concert, which he loved.
Jason Tonioli
And we just said, hey, can you come for, like, 15, 20 minutes before the concert? We’re having this little meet and greet. You can come get a sandwich or, you know, a little dessert or something where we’re gonna. You know, the clients are all gonna be, you know, meet and greet, just. And just come play the piano for five minutes for everybody and say hello, and they’ll. You know, it’s just like this elevated thing that, you know, normally you wouldn’t think, oh, the artist would be willing to do this, but frankly, in a lot of ways, I think artists don’t realize how exciting. Like, it’s. That’s fun for the artist. Like, it’s. Honestly, in some cases, I’d prefer to do the small, little mini show like that over doing a big venue, because you can actually connect with somebody and have a human, like experience together.
Christian Ray
Oh, a hundred percent. 100%. Artists you know, and that’s the thing is, look, if you’re an artist, you have an imagination, you can create. Just treat business as an art, and it will be an amazing thing. It really is. So there’s a ton of that that I could have done. I just chose not to. It’s really interesting.
Jason Tonioli
I think the longer I’ve been around the music business, and really, just last week, I had the opportunity of being with half of the RSL Major League Soccer team at a hospital. And it’s one of those where the longer you’re around, the more you realize that these people that we put up on a pedestal, these famous people, they’re humans just like us. They want connection. And I think as artists, you don’t want to be that person that’s untouchable, and you’re not like, we all have feelings. We have emotions. But I think as artists, I think we could do a much better job of looking at those opportunities. Maybe it’s not a corporate thing. I’m thinking of, like, independent artists. I just had a situation where I was pulling up my website and looking at just music sales, and I had somebody who’s spent over $400 on sheet music with me. And I looked at that, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, I should just pick up the phone and call this person and say thank you, and probably just tell them that I knew who they were and that I would be willing to do that. But I think there’s opportunities as artists or creators to say thank you and recognize those people that have been there along the journey with us, and doing that little thing that probably takes me five minutes for a phone call, it’ll probably be fun.
Jason Tonioli
It’ll probably be the highlight of my day if I get that person on the phone. And I think as artists, though, looking for those potential collaborations, those opportunities to. Even if it’s just saying thank you on Facebook, I think another example is you’re talking about putting these groups together that you were able to recreate and do the same thing. You look backwards to Taylor Swift’s career, and she’s out on MySpace or Facebook and Instagram. She’s sending personal stuff out to fans, and you look at her growth. But I think a lot of her success is attributed to the fact that she did connect with the fans. And I think there’s something to be learned from that at not only the fan level, the corporate level, but just as a human being level, to be more satisfied and happier in life. Right?
Christian Ray
That’s exactly it. Yeah. And I think for me, for example, the way I did it at the time was I did this work with these orphans and, and it was not just the show and they loved it. They literally would send me letters, emails, years, years, years. They were grown ups and they were like, hey, I look forward to this thing that you did every year.
Jason Tonioli
Yeah.
Christian Ray
Not only did we do that, but I would go, me and my wife, we would go into this one specific orphanage because we wanted to continuity and we just hang out with these kids for like hours and, and it was just magical, you know, to, to feel something so real and to touch a life of people that are, they’re invisible, you know, in those societies.
Jason Tonioli
Yeah.
Christian Ray
That are. It’s pretty powerful stuff. Right. So that’s what got me hooked on this, on this idea of, you know, always remembering the poor, always remembering those who don’t have. And that’s not an option to not do it anymore. You know. So for me, I’ve never, I’ve never stopped since then basically.
Jason Tonioli
And I don’t think you realize the difference that each person can make. I mean, as, as a big-name artist going into that orphanage. I mean, you’re telling me that there’s letters you’re getting from people. I mean, my guess is that kid, the first time they believed in themselves, like they realized, oh my gosh, yeah, I can do it. It’s, it, it can be okay. I mean, I, it. The motivation I think that you can plant in people.
Christian Ray
Yeah.
Jason Tonioli
Incredible. I mean, speaking of last week, my son just went in for a surgery. It was a planned surgery. He got two metal bars put in his chest. I mean, it’s a very painful surgery. I’ve never, you know, and with four kids, I’ve never been in the parent seat in a hospital situation where, okay, my kid just went into surgery for three, three and a half hours and came out. And what was so interesting with this is as I was waiting for him in surgery, I found out that this soccer team, that’s the, the big major League soccer team was going to be at the hospital that day, two hours after his surgery.
Christian Ray
Right.
Jason Tonioli
And, and I thought, oh my gosh. And he’s like this super fan, like he knows all the players, like over the top super fan. Which I’m just like, oh man, he’s, he’s not going to be feeling well. He’s coming out of, you know, the being under the. I mean, he’s literally got slices across his chest and not supposed to be even getting out of bed. For, for a full day at least, even if, if it’s just to go to the bathroom. And he came out of the surgery and you, you know, you’re starting, he’s starting to wake up and, and I told him, I said, hey, RSL is going to be here. And the motor, like, I’ve. It’s crazy. So he’s, he’s trying to go to, like, he needs to sleep. Like, that’s, that’s what he’s supposed to be doing. And, and he’s like, I, I’m gonna go see him. Like, wow, you’re not gonna go see these kids. You’re, you’re like hooked up to IVs and you’re, you’re not even like half. Like, you’re loopy still. And, and so as, as we were getting willed to his room, he was going to be in. It was like, just after one, like 1 o’clock when we’re starting. I think it was 1:30 maybe, when we were getting wheeled to his room. And he’s literally just supposed to sleep for the next 24 hours. And he’s like, no, I’m not going to sleep. I’m going to go meet players. And so that we come in and I’m just like, with the nurse, joking with her like, yeah. He says he’s going to go meet these players. And she’s like, you’re probably not getting up. And like, literally he would not go to sleep. He says, I’m going, like, I want to go see these players. And she’s, we got to 3 o’clock when they were supposed to be there. And he’s like, can I go down and meet the players? And she’s like, I’ve been here 23 years doing this as a nurse. And she said, I’ve never seen anybody get out of bed. She’s like, the best I’ve ever seen is by bedtime. Sometimes I can convince a teenage girl to get out of bed and go to the bathroom before instead of peeing into a bedpan. And he said, I’ve never had a boy actually get up and want to do anything within 24 hours.
Jason Tonioli
Next day, I’m fighting you to get out of bed. And Ryan’s like, well, I’m going to go do this. So what’s crazy is he is literally at 3:00, he’s like, can I do it? And she’s like, well, okay. And she says, you cannot get out of your wheelchair. You. You can’t. You can’t do this. And what’s crazy is. And she’s like, he’s going to probably be throwing up. And he’s. You know, you’ve got to be really careful with him. But I guess I’ll let you go down the hall and meet these guys. So this kid is out of surgery, like an hour and 50 minutes outside of surgery.
Christian Ray
Oh, my.
Jason Tonioli
We push him down to meet these players. And what’s crazy is he starts interacting with him. And that motivation that, I mean, it was just. It was wild to me to see when somebody had a reason and motivation to do something, what the body and somebody was able to do. I mean, it was. I mean, a miracle happening. Like, he literally hung out for almost an hour and a half with these guys. He threw up twice in front of his heroes, which was.
Christian Ray
Oh, my gosh, he’s still going to.
Jason Tonioli
Like, laugh about it. Like, he’s in the middle of talking, he’s like, barf back, you know. But it was. It made me realize if. If we are artists or like famous people or whatever we want to call it, if we had any idea the impact we could have on somebody, that a 23 never happened in 23 years. We could get somebody up out of bed to do something. We would do that every day of our life if we could have those opportunities. I think for me, the takeaway from all of this, I love what you’re doing with the orphans, but as artists and just. Even if you’re just a normal guy, find those opportunities to serve somebody and make a difference. And I don’t think we realize how big of an impact we can actually have whether you’re famous or not famous. So.
Christian Ray
Also it changes you, right? I mean, especially when you. When you are consistent with it, you. You get out of it as much as the person you’re serving as well, you know, so that really stayed with me forever, actually. You know, like, I never stopped. We just switched what we would do. And then, you know, the latest thing is we started this academy. I was joking with you, me, and you and I were laughing about how you can literally start a business and then get distracted by something else and let the business sort of flatline, you know, and that was one of my things, is that, like, you know.
I remember growing up in Mozambique, and it’s one of the poorest countries in the world. So it’s about. I want to say 70% of the population today lives on under $2 a day today, which is shameful, to be honest with you. But. And then, so I would I’d taken my family, I took my family to Maputo, the capital. And I would, you know, it was my, it was. First it was just my wife and then a friend of mine, Brandon, and we would go and I’d say, hey, here’s where I grew up. And it was like a nice house and everything. But in the slums there, all around the city there’s all these people that basically come from the rural areas because it’s. Even in the slums they can make more money than they would make out there somewhere in the middle of nowhere. And it’s like corrugated steel, dirt floors or cement floors, that kind of thing. Not indoor plumbing. And it’s just plagued with, I mean it’s plagued with all kinds of dysfunction. Like these kids don’t really have two parents in the house. Most of the time a percentage of the population is HIV AIDS positive. Like its layers and layers and I mean they don’t have a chance.
I basically said look, what if we bring just a group of kids, a small group from a local school, we select them well and we give them four or five hours a day, four or five days a week, almost like a second home. They can come to a place where there’s air conditioning, they don’t know air conditioning, where they have a meal, they have a uniform, they feel just their self-esteem raises. They are mentored by actual middle-class professionals who basically their main goal is to say you can be like me. And, and they would just hang out with them and they would learn English, computer literacy and character development, you know, like, and that was sort of the idea. And so we started like, and we started from nothing. From nothing. I just started sharing with people and we didn’t even have the money and some friends were like okay, I’ll give you some money. And it’s been going for five years, you know, so. Yeah, but it’s just one of those things where it’s very impractical and from one side of, you know, if you look at it from that standpoint, it’s distracting from other things, but it’s, it gives you so much joy and meaning and significance that you like can’t not do it. So that’s sort of my, my way why I do it basically.
Jason Tonioli
That’s incredible. I man got so many ideas going through my head right now, of ways we could help put people with just. I love your story. It’s, it’s, it’s been an amazing kind of talking through this and sharing, if I guess any last words of advice that you have. I mean you shared some amazing points for people. But when it comes to success, you know what, what I’m curious what you define as success today versus, you know, I’m just curious, what, what do you consider a successful person or even a successful musician?
Christian Ray
I think it’s a work full of impact. It doesn’t have to be massive, right? But impact. 49:27 I’m changing something. It’s not just a job, it’s not just the paycheck. I think that’s how we are treated, I don’t know how it happened in the west, in America specifically, that work is just a job. I think that’s just one of the most destructive ways to live, you can possibly live because you spend literally your most creative hours of the day, eight hours a day, you do something that has no meaning for you, it’s just a paycheck. So to me, 49:55 success is a, is a job or a work vocation, it’s probably a better word. It’s a calling that is full of impact. A, you know, a family full of love. And, and that’s the thing that gets really, really suffers the most for people who are high, high performance types like me. I was that guy basically. Right? And so we, we over, over invest in the outer game, in the skills and the things that gets the praise, the raise, the respect, you know, the status, the fame, whatever.
Christian Ray
And we under invest in the character that’s supposed to drive this thing and the impact it could have. So we invest in friendships, in love, in family and parenting, in the spiritual dimension that gives you peace and clarity about life. We under invest in those things. So very, very, very talented people, they just pursue something and then they can’t even pursue it well, because all these pieces that make them human, these things are not developed, they’re underdeveloped in them. Right? And so that’s why part of the reason why I do coaching now is because when I was at the peak of my career, I was clinically depressed because of that. And somebody came in. I met this guy who was this Canadian missionary and I saw his family, his life, the way he lived and who he was. And I basically said, can you please teach me how to be like you? And when he did, I paid attention. I was very, very coachable. Everything changed for me. So all those pieces that were missing, they came into place like pieces of mosaic. And to me that’s what makes me a successful person.
Christian Ray
It’s all of that together, basically.
Jason Tonioli
Yeah. No, that’s amazing. You’ve dropped all kinds of gold nuggets throughout. I hope this has been really impactful for people. I’ve learned a ton. I feel like I’ve made a new friend.
Christian Ray
Oh, man. Thanks, Jason.
Jason Tonioli
Christian, if people want to check out more about you, where should they go? I know you’ve got Xponential Life. It is your site. You do coaching. I mean, you’ve got a lot of things going on, but where. Where should they go specifically if they want to connect with you?
Christian Ray
Yeah. So a couple places. One is Xponential Life. Xponential is spelled without the e, starting with an X. And there you can just learn what I do for coaching. And maybe that’s a good fit for you, maybe it’s not, but it’s really. There’s a really cool tool there. It’s called the xponential radar. And it’s an assessment of like 40 questions about five minutes that really measures essentially the most important aspects of your life in how you are, where are you doing well, and what needs more work, basically. So it’s a really cool assessment. I highly recommend taking it. The second place is my newsletter. I drop two newsletters a week. ChristianRayFlores.com is the URL just my name. And I basically focus on it. It’s on success and significance, specifically that combination. I think success without significance doesn’t work in the long run. And success fueled by significance actually becomes higher levels of success and deeper levels of success. So basically, that’s what we do. It’s very practical. You know, two times a week, we drop something there.
Jason Tonioli
That’s amazing. Well, Christian, thank you so much for taking time to share. And I know there’s going to be several people that are going to benefit from hearing not only your story, but just. Just the advice. I think it’s. It’s an incredible journey. It’s. It’s so good to hear somebody be as humble. You know, having accomplished what you’re doing, it just. It just makes me realize, wow, there’s, you know, a lot of great people out there in the world doing good things. So thank you for all that you’re doing to make an impact.
Christian Ray
Thank you, Jason. Thank you.
Jason Tonioli
Awesome. Thanks.