Successful Musician Podcast Episode 59
Interviewee: Juan Cortes Arango
Interviewer: Jason Tonioli
Jason Tonioli
Welcome to the podcast today. My special guest is Juan Cortés-Arango. He is a Colombian composer. You’ve done a lot of orchestration. I know over time; you’ve been a music producer. I know Juan, for films, television, you’re living in LA. You’ve got the fires that are all too close to you now. With what’s going on with when this interview is happening in California there. So, I’m glad you’re okay, and I’m so glad you’re on the show to share with us today.
Juan Cortes Arango
Yeah. Thank you, Jason. Thank you for having me. Yes, I’m glad to say I’m safe.
Jason Tonioli
Awesome. Well, so let’s dive in. My hope with these podcasts is that for people that are listening, they can walk away realizing that there’s just so many directions in the music industry that you can go and that you can have a successful career and just an opportunity to use music as a career. I love your story. I’d love to just start from the beginning. Where you grew up, how you ended up in music, and then how in the world do you end up If you’re Colombian, how do you end up in LA doing music for shows? You’ve got several awesome shows. Funny Birds, I know, is just coming out this year. Or last year, it came out, right?
Juan Cortes Arango
Yeah, it came out in Europe. Martin Scorsese executive produced that project, which was a pretty amazing opportunity. A show that I scored just came out on HBO. It’s called The Hit, third season. But yeah, no, you’re right. I’m from Colombia. I grew up in a family of accountants, so no music at all. Very business-related. Colombia, as a space, didn’t offer a ton of opportunities for music. Maybe that’s the first step into this, because my first interaction with music was just learning guitar and learning cello and piano, which are my instruments, and trying to figure out where I could even study these instruments. There were no schools. There were the conservatories, and that was what education was, but it was very limited. This all led to a school called Berklee, which is a pretty renowned school. At the time, it sounded truly like a wild card. I didn’t realize I could even get in. I was really young. I applied just thinking, I’m not going to get in. I like jazz. Then I did. I got in, I got accepted, and it led to a lot of traveling back and forth and convincing my parents that they, being in business, not understanding the same questions that you’re asking me.
How are you going to make a living? How is this going to work? What are you going to do? What’s your plan? You go to Berklee, you learn how to play an instrument, and then what? While I was at Berklee, I ended up convincing them to let me go. They said, okay, fine, go. Eventually, my dad always told me, one day you’ll wake up and you’ll come back, and I’ll give you a job and that will be your life. He never really for years, he believed that very strongly. He did not believe music was a path. My mom, on the other hand, was very supportive. I think you always need that unconditional support in whatever you do. There will always be one person that looks at you. I think that’s pretty elemental to what you need to do. You need someone that believes in you that helps reassure your beliefs. My mom was that for me.
Then I went to Berklee. I got really bad tendonitis. I could no longer play my instruments. I couldn’t even hold cups for a month. At Berklee, I had to ask myself the same question again. It’s like, Okay, I’m here. I thought I was going to be a guitar player somewhere. I guess I’m not. What else can I do? Some friends had spoken to me about film scoring. There was a film scoring program at Berklee. It’s a niche program. It’s not very big. It’s like 80 people. The school itself is not that big, but it was a niche little thing, and I looked into it. I love film, but I didn’t know there was a career path to become a field composer. Every film composer that I knew was really coming from having performed for many years and then they would transition into film because they knew a director for their career as musicians. But I didn’t realize that now we have another different path, which is you can be more acquainted with what film entails. It’s skipping the whole artist thing. Same thing, I applied, I ended up getting in.
Then there was another program at Berklee now called Electronic and Production Design, which was very much focused on electronic music and music technology. That was, for me, very important because it showed me that music could be very broad conceptually, too, beyond what we know of music because in music technology, there was a career path to become a music therapist or a music technologist, which has nothing to do with writing for film or even performing. It was really about how my teacher at the time was developing a piece of software that would allow patients to translate a minimum movement into sound just to help them stimulate their brains. Then that was for me, eye-opening, because I didn’t know you could do that. I didn’t know you could use music in spaces like that.
Then from that, I started to get more interested in collaborating, I think. It was just people outside of my field. I ended up doing some musical theater classes with another school called Emerson, where I met another friend, Caillon. And this all became key collaborators in my journey.
So, I feel like my first lesson was every person that I met up to that point, later became instrumental in what would happen later. Every relationship became a door to another space or another field. For example, with Caillon. Caillon was this friend of mine who was very into musical theater. He has a very different approach than I do. Then he ended up bringing me on board for a musical theater play, like a school thing. I enjoyed it. It was one of the first things that I did where I didn’t need to play. I was writing music. It was a cool space where I could practice performing music in a way without me being the performer. That led to composition and then film scoring, opening more doors and so on. Anyway, that’s cool. That’s how I ended up in music school, and then I graduated. Everyone was asking me what I was going to do. I was coming to my final year at Berklee. My arms were better. I could play again. Then I was wondering what would happen, what would I do? I wasn’t still super sure about the film. It was an opportunity, but in the end, I wasn’t really sure. I wasn’t so sure how it would look. My best friend, Richard, decided to ask me if I wanted to work on video games. I said, I don’t know anything about video games, but sure, why not? What do you need? He’s like, Well, there’s a lot of music that can be done, but there’s this other very technical imitation. At the time, music could only occupy a certain amount of space in a disk or a certain amount of space in a memory card.
Suddenly, all my music technology background was paying off. It’s like, oh, don’t worry. I know how to do this using this other or I can get creative and record just one instrument, whatnot. I ended up doing that. I arrived in LA with them, and then we had this company called Hexany Audio. Hexany went on to become a pretty successful video game sound and music company. That was like 2014. Nowadays, Hexany is doing a lot of Tencent games, Age of Empires, the new game. I don’t remember what else. Nowadays, it’s very, very successful and remarkable to see what has happened with that company. At the beginning, we were doing slot machine games, whatever. It was just very early stages. And then I wasn’t very interested in video games either. It was this constant, a search of, well, what do I want to do? None of this is really hitting home. All of these different outlets are interesting, but it all feels a little outside of what I want to do, but I didn’t know either.
I met some friends who were assisting this composer, Haytor Pereya, and he was working on Angry Birds, and he needed people to help him. He gave me my first chance. He was the first person who said, why don’t you come do a test for me? He calls it a media orchestration test, which basically you go in, you take an idea, you arrange it, and you make it work with the scene. I did that. He liked me, I enjoyed working with them. I spent a few months working on that movie and working with their team and getting more acquainted. I think it was at that moment where I was feeling more connected with the idea of writing and not performing. I think it was still something that I was trying to come to terms with. Then it’s like a train. Once I jumped in that train, I think it was just like, I think I assisted on 60 or 50 movies with different composers. That all became its own universe. At some point, I had to stop and look back and say, Well, I’ve been doing this for, I don’t know. I did it for 8 or 10 years where I was just working primarily as a writer. I would go in. Each show or each movie has a group of writers that would take on, would help the main composer to finish the project.
I learned anything from the most basic Pro tools template sessions. I had to prepare the stamps so I had to write the music that was going to be orchestrated and everything in between. I saw all that, and I started to realize that what I wanted to specialize in was writing. Then that started to hit more home. It felt more comfortable and more natural. The orchestration was just along the way of writing just because they’re so integrated together, it became something that I couldn’t see. I couldn’t see writing music without orchestrating and vice versa. You couldn’t orchestrate without having some sense of writing music. It would be very challenging. And as I’m recanting, this sounds really long. I’m so sorry.
Jason Tonioli
You’re good. No, I think I love actually hearing the details. I’m curious… I mean, you talked about relationships. If Berklee invited you to come back and have a conversation with all those 80 kids that are in the school now, what advice or what would you tell them about relationships? What would you encourage somebody to do differently? Then maybe, yeah, you’re going to meet people, but are there things that you’d do differently now if you knew what you knew now, if you were back in school at Berklee again?
Juan Cortes Arango
36:27 I don’t think I would have done anything differently. I think, be genuine. I think life will teach you that being genuine goes a long way. Staying true to yourself will pay off. It’s not that clear at the beginning. I feel like there’s a lot of anxiety when you arrive at a place like Berklee or any space, any position of network. I think there’s a lot of anxiety of trying to get out of that that’s immediate, not something that will happen on the day. Some of these things won’t happen in years, and they have to, understanding that it’s a journey. I know everyone says, well, it’s the journey, but now it’s like, well, it is because some things need to cement first. Some relationships need to really exist so they can understand each other. If you rush, it’s like if you’re cooking, if you rush your dish, you’re going to burn it. In a similar way, I don’t necessarily think you will enjoy every journey. There are things that are obviously not joyful, but it is very important to give time to everything and to tell oneself, it doesn’t mean that you have to sit and wait.
That would also say never do that, because I think at some point, I was guilty of just being very comfortable being someone who has been recommended. And that on its own was a very lucky thing. It took me many years to realize that I was getting stagnant. I was just relying on the same conversations or same paths that I’ve established, and they were not going to go anywhere else. It’s like I was going to be that person and that person alone. Now that you meet directors, I think it’s the same approach, because after Berklee, the next point in my life where I feel like the next group of people that are making a huge difference in my career and in my life are directors that I’ve met and collaborators that became also teachers in life, not just in music, but also people that I would look up to.
I ended up meeting this composer, Federico Jussit, who became one of the most important pesos in my life, because I look up to him musically. He’s a fantastic composer who taught me everything I know and more. It’s almost like a father figure or like a brother figure. I would see how he treats his collaborators, and I would think, I want to do that, too. I like the respect that he inspires. I like that he’s very strict projects, but at the same time he listens, and he would be very human when it comes to circumstances that happen in life. He wouldn’t have unrealistic expectations on his team, but he would push the team and make sure that the best music within those capabilities can happen. To be coherent. Some projects allow for extravagant things, like go to Abbey Road for two weeks and be there, and some other projects just can’t. That doesn’t mean that you treat one or the other better. Those things, I think, I learned from him. I would say, I would tell myself not… I would tell myself what my therapist told me now, which is like, if you feel anxious, wait 15 minutes before you speak. That has done wonders in my life. I guess I’m sidetracking a little, but yeah, I think that’s what the journey looked like.
Jason Tonioli
You mentioned a little bit about all these relationships you had, but you’ve worked with all kinds of people. And I think the longer, the older I get, the more people you cross pathways with and you get to work with great people. Sometimes you work with some people that aren’t your favorite. You mentioned that there’s always going to be some things that aren’t as pleasant sometimes. But what advice would you have, or are there any situations or stories that would illustrate that for a younger musician? What advice do you have for collaborating and working with other people on projects, whether that’s producers or other musicians?
Juan Cortes Arango
Yeah, communication. I think something that I’m guilty of, and many people, young people, are just doing what you say that you’re going to do. I think it’s such a simple statement and so hard to do because we often… Or a common mistake is people often they’re overconfident in their skill set. A little humility goes a long way. I’ll give you an example. When I worked with Haytor, I was convinced I could do a movie on my own. I was 100% convinced I could sit down, someone could come and give me James Bond, and I would do it. It took me one day with Haytor to realize that that was just so far in the universe. Just conceptually, I don’t think you’ve matured enough. Even when we talk about film as a language, creatively speaking, it’s like you need to see so much film. You need to experience so much film before you can genuinely get a grasp of what you want to do with it. Looking at a film, I’m being, this is what I want to articulate. I find that those are the interesting composers. So many things have to come together for you to look at a film on a project and be able to say something that I think some humility would be nice when you’re coming fresh out of the boat, per se, from Berklee or whatever.
I don’t know. For me, I think it was also the fact that as an immigrant, I also had some overconfidence of thinking, I’ve reinvented myself several times. I’ve lived in three different cities. I was, I don’t know, 24 or whatever, and thinking, I’ve reinvented myself. Why couldn’t I just do a film? Then it’s like, well, because it’s bigger than that. The film is a group of people coming together, and that’s what it is, a group of people, meaning group of perspectives, group of personalities and everything. I would say that to myself.
Jason Tonioli
I love the word humility. One of the things I’ve done over the years is, I don’t know how to say this in Spanish, entomology is the study of words. When you say humility, probably one of my very favorite words, when you look at where that word comes from with humility, it comes from the word humus. If you go back into Latin, and I don’t know what it would be in Spanish, but humility and humus. Humus is like the most fertile soil you can get. If you’re a farmer and you want to grow really good plants, you have this really organic humus type of soil. It’s what I find interesting by just looking at where that word comes from. A lot of times, I think when I was younger or even younger when we knew how to do everything ourselves, and then you get humbled or you have that humility, you’re like, oh, all of a sudden. But really, what happens is when you truly are humble, it’s not a weakness. It’s more of a teachable recognizing the value of when somebody is there, it grows way better. If you think you know it all, man, it’s the other side of humility. When you get humbled, that’s the battle, right?
Juan Cortes Arango
I love that. I agree. I love the land analogy, but I don’t condemn it either. Because it also comes from being young. You’re very brave, you’re very bold. I don’t think it’s to feel bad about it. It’s just something to… Again, it will grow on you. As you grow older, you’ll be like, Maybe I can stay quiet longer and listen first.
Jason Tonioli
Well, but earlier you were talking about how important it’s important for people to believe in you. And honestly, as I’ve gotten older and older and more experienced at things, I see people who have all these talents and they have all these abilities, but they don’t believe they’re capable of doing a thing. It used to drive me crazy. You go to some of these conferences or places where people want to just build you up and like, oh, you can do this. Believe in yourself. And part of me was like, oh, my gosh, just teach me how to do the thing and let me do the thing. But the more I’ve done the thing, the more I’ve realized, oh, my gosh, believing that you can and having that belief is probably more important than just learning how to do the thing, because you got to show up and you got to believe in yourself. And It’s like when somebody walks up to the foul line in a basketball game, you got to know that that ball is going in there.
Juan Cortes Arango
Yeah, you need to be confident and do it. Absolutely. And I think for me, that was challenging. I think on that end, the community being genuine allows us to have a community that will believe in you and that will be there for you when these doubts come to hunt you. Because this career has a thing that you’re constantly doubting yourself. You’re constantly being rejected. I remember talking to my wife about this, but it’s funny or even my colleagues, and I’ll be like, I’ll be sad about a project that I pitched for, and I didn’t get a call for it. Then he’ll be like, oh, that just happened to you once, and I’ll be like, Is this? Some of them, it was very enlightening to see that it happens even… I mean, it’s also sad, but it happens at every stage, even when you… I’ve heard plenty of people who after Oscar nominations or things like that, they were like, Okay, I’m done. Then the next day, their agent is like, Okay, here’s a reel for this project. Then they’re like, I still have to send a reel? It’s like, Well, yes. It doesn’t end.
46:35 You have to continue to grow. Another thing that I would tell myself is that I still do it. Never stop studying. I think that’s another thing that I sometimes see that is not great, which is people think that I went to school for five years or I play in bands for 10 years. There’s nothing else for me to learn. It’s like, no, the world changed, and you change. Your sound changes. You cannot just do the same thing and expect different results. Probably you’re going to be there, whatever you achieve, that’s probably what’s going to be from then on. Studying is something that I’ve learned to study for years. I didn’t know how to study when I first came to LA, at least. I don’t think I knew what to look for. It was just a piece of information in front of me. As I grow older, it’s more precise. It’s like, oh, I want to enrich my vocabulary, so I will listen to this music, or there’s this piece of technology that is useful for this and that. Then you start to piece it together and then you become your own thing.
Jason Tonioli
I’ve been in the business world, in the banking world. I’ve got a lot of background in software banking and all that, and I’ve seen lots of different industries in it. Music, not so much, but I would say it’s amazing to me how people will go to school, and they’ll spend a small fortune. They’ll go into school for four or five years or whatever it is. And then as soon as they graduate, they think they’re done investing in themselves. And people talk about like, oh, I’m still going to learn. But I find it interesting how many people decide that they’re not going to invest even $1,000 into learning something they’re interested in, whether that’s whatever, if it’s in their career, or maybe you just want to learn how to carve a piece of wood. I mean, there’s so many things you can learn. And yet so many people are unwilling to invest in themselves to learn.
Juan Cortes Arango
Yeah, I agree. No, I love learning. I’m on that end.
Jason Tonioli
I still remember, you look at Tiger Woods and all of these great athletes that are out there, and almost I would say, without a doubt, every single one of the top performing athletes have a coach. Tiger Woods, back when he was the best in the world, I remember when I was younger, I was like, oh, he has a coach? He should be teaching everybody else how to do it. He goes out there and wins. But no, he had somebody that was telling him how to adjust his swing and fix things.
Juan Cortes Arango
Absolutely. Yeah. You need someone that’s looking at you because you’re doing, you can’t be as introspective. It will be very challenging. No, you need some perspective. Then again, I feel like the recurring theme is having friends, people that can be around you, that can look at you and genuine friends that can sit you down and say things that can be challenging, too. And musically challenging people who say, this cute doesn’t really work.
Jason Tonioli
Right. I think just having that growth mindset. There are some people, I think your most successful people are often those people that they’ll seek out feedback from people. I’ve seen other people, where they’re really good at their thing, but they don’t want somebody to tell them they’re not good.
Juan Cortes Arango
I mean, no one does.
Jason Tonioli
Nobody likes it. But I think the people that really do have those breakthroughs and growth are or people that maybe do sit. I just had a concert here last week at my house, and we shared some brand-new stories. It was a story where I was playing music. They were reading the story, and I was playing live stuff behind it. It was a small, intimate house concert. It was like 30 people or so. It was super fun, but I felt like, you know what? There’s so few of us here. I’m going to ask for feedback. We literally opened it up to the audience to tell us, what did you think about this? Do you like this idea? It was so helpful to just get that feedback from people on what their perspective was on it, because I’m sitting at the piano, yet I can’t be in two places at the same time to give the perspective of like, what do you think?
Juan Cortes Arango
Exactly. Yeah, you want someone to… It’s funny because it reminds me of this one time, I read that Tarantino likes to read the script to his friends. This is also important. He also said how it’s not that he’s going to do what his friends say. No. One of them is going to be like, kill this character, and that’s not what he’s after. He also wants to see how they’re reacting to his work, that he’s listening. Because I think it’s also confusing. Everyone has an opinion on feedback. Everyone has a different approach, a vision, an image that they’re reflecting on you. I think it’s also important to build your own compass that you’re also thinking about. Everyone is going to give you an opinion, everyone. Whenever you open a conversation, someone will share their opinion with you, whether you like it or not. So, getting upset at it, it’s irrelevant. But being able to discern, all right, in this statement that you’ve given me, what can I use? And being open to receiving it. I mean, this that you’re saying is good. The basic things don’t be late. Oh, that’s another thing. Don’t be late.
Jason Tonioli
Never be late. It’s good advice. So, I’m curious. One of your more recent films was the Funny Birds, a collaboration you had with several really cool people. But I guess the producer was Martin Scorsese. So very well-known people. So, what advice would you have for others when you do get… Oftentimes, we feel like we’re in the room with maybe people that are out of our league, maybe. Big deal. What advice do you have when you have that opportunity, that situation? What have you learned from me? You’ve worked on a lot of really cool projects with a lot of amazing people, but what advice do you have for people?
Juan Cortes Arango
I can say, for example, that project, I’ve known Marco and Hannah, the director First for many years. Actually, I worked on their first film, and we went to Cannes in 2018. Cannes has this new… At the time, they had a new program for new directors. They were the new directors. I was their friend. When, again, I met Marco to go to a coffee shop, a year before that moment. I say this because by the time that Scorsese and Funny Birds came to be, a few years had passed by, but our relationship to me felt strong. I knew them personally early. When they called me, I was open to the idea that they wouldn’t call me because of what you said. I was like, okay, this is a bigger leak. Probably you’re going to call someone in that realm. Even though I’m pretty content with my journey, I’m also very realistic. I’m still an up-and-coming composer. They called me, they said, this is what’s happening. This person is involved. The first thing that I had to do was to ground myself because of what you’re saying, because it felt like I needed to impress everyone.
I felt a lot of pressure. I felt like I needed to somehow earn my space now. I’ve been given this opportunity, but I don’t really deserve it. I don’t really earn it. That’s what I believe. In my head, there was like, I need to go immediately and record a lot of demos to show them that I am capable of writing music and capable of writing music that is on par with what they’re expecting. That was such a big mistake because I went immediately to record a bunch of ideas, and they had to stop me and be like, but you haven’t even seen the cut. We haven’t even shot it. You’re just going to make everyone anxious. Because they’re good friends, they were like one of those moments where they just calm down. You deserve to be here, but don’t let the anxiety take over. By trying to prove myself I was doing worse. I recorded a few ideas, I remember, and I said, okay, let me just record a few. I shared it with them. One, they ended up loving. I said, See, at least this is cementing that I have a chance. But the conversation just slowed down.
In those moments where you get star struck and you feel the need to do something, almost the advice is, don’t do anything. Just stay still for a moment. Again, 15 minutes, wait before whatever you’re going to say, if it makes sense or not. Most likely it doesn’t make sense. Just wait 15 minutes and you’ll come to terms, and you’ll be like, oh, I should just stay quiet for one moment and listen to what’s going to happen? Yeah, so that’s how I felt.
Jason Tonioli
That’s amazing advice. I know we’re winding down on time, but I’m curious, what’s the best advice you feel like you’ve gotten from anybody? You’ve given us several awesome things. Best advice you’ve gotten to help you be successful in the music world?
Juan Cortes Arango
I don’t know. So many things that we’ve talked about. I don’t think I could say one piece of advice. I think it’s more like a mindset that I would encourage people to have, which is being honest with oneself and being kind. There are many moments of that, many moments of selfishness or jealousy and maybe trying to remind, not to entertain those thoughts. It’s not a race, or it’s not that race. It’s more like a tenacity situation. It’s like a very long game. Some people might jump very quickly. Some others will take a very, very long time. We know examples of that. John Williams didn’t really have a chance until his 50s or so. Then on the contrary, there’s people like Jacob Collier, who’s brilliant, but he’s also in his early 20s, and he already has a remarkable pool of attention that can confuse younger people and certainly can confuse even people like us that are currently working that we’re thinking, Wait, we have a process of 10 years working in the industry, why doesn’t that look the same? You have these doubts that can cloud your judgment. So, I think it’s very important to be kind and to remember, no, you’ve done. Hopefully, you’ve done what you can do best with what you have. If you want to change something, you can. Just don’t be harsh on yourself necessarily.
Jason Tonioli
Yeah, that’s great advice. Last question for you. When you hear the word successful musician, what comes to mind? To you personally, if you were talking to a group, what would you describe as success as a musician or being successful?
Juan Cortes Arango
I don’t know. Being happy with your music, no. It’s so You are. Success? I wouldn’t know. I guess feeling cold or feeling complete. I don’t think it ends. The more I talk with people, the more.
I guess this is disheartening because my answer would be like, I don’t think you can achieve it, that version of success. It’s more like you just keep pursuing this idea that you want to write different music, be a better performer, I guess what goes along with that, be a better human, be a better parent, a better spouse, try to do these things that would potentially make your life better than if you don’t. Success to me would be a career that allows me to continue to do that. If I have a career that allows me to continue to have the films and pursue my music and the years, that to me is what I’m striving for success, just to continue cementing a career that allows me to just continue the music and film.
Jason Tonioli
Doing what you love. You used a word earlier, just a second ago, that I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anybody use to describe success. You said, it makes me feel complete.
Juan Cortes Arango
Yeah, I think that’s something that I’ve been longing for a long time, partly because I’m an immigrant. I feel like to me, building a home is very challenging because… Building a home became very important. Having my wife and eventually a kid or having my dog. I think music to me was that space where it just travels with me, whether I’m in Europe and South America and Asia, whatever I have been. Music has always been that thing that I can carry with me that I don’t need to worry about. That was on the way home, right? But now I get to share it. I’ve been realizing that, okay, the only thing that I know how to do is music. I’m going to use that to hopefully provide for me and my family and give me that sense of being complete and at peace.
Jason Tonioli
I love that word. I’m just thinking that in order to feel complete, we need those relationships in our lives. You have your partner, your family, whatever that is. And I think in a lot of ways for people, and I’m not a psychologist or anything, but I think that’s an interesting way to describe. I think of family making you feel complete, or your spouse partner brings those feelings. But I love that you think… Just the way you describe the music making you… You’d feel like you weren’t whole if you didn’t have the music in your life.
Juan Cortes Arango
A hundred %. I think we all have those things. They’re not that obvious. I think, unfortunately, you start learning that after going through less joyful moments of your life, and then you start realizing what are the things that matter to you, and they will probably only speak to you. I think to me, being complete has been very honest to myself. Even when I learned that maybe something is not exactly what I want about me or I think being honest and just being kind and thinking like, Yeah, I need to work on this because if I see that call, then I can work on it. I think music behaves the same way. When you’re learning music, you’re learning a language, you want to play like Keith Jarrett, and then you look at his course and you’re like, I’m missing those cords that he has. You see the hole, then you can fill it in. That’s my philosophy. Studying is basically filling holes.
Jason Tonioli
I think that’s one of the coolest definitions or words that I’ve heard anybody in almost 60 episodes describe. I love it. So, thank you. You’re going to leave me thinking for a long time now. There was a little drop of gold that I hope everybody caught. Just the advice you have with your journey. I love your story. And gosh, I could keep talking to you, I think for another hour, and we could keep going. But thank you so much for sharing with everybody and for sharing your story and for your music is amazing. I was almost late for the podcast because I was in the middle of listening. I got distracted. I was like, oh, this is nice. Definitely, for anybody listening here, we’ll put some links in the show notes but go check out some of the songs. Again, it’s Juan Cortés, Arango, right? Yeah. I say that. But it’s some great music, and I think an even better human being. Man, perfect.
Juan Cortes Arango
Thank you so much.
Jason Tonioli
Thank you so much for taking some time and sharing some wisdom with us. And I feel like I’ve got a brand-new friend as well. I’m going to have to go take me to Colombia one of these days.
Juan Cortes Arango
We have to. I should go to one of your trips to keep me posted.
Jason Tonioli
That would be fun. So, thank you so much, Juan, and we will definitely be in touch. Appreciate it.
Juan Cortes Arango
Thank you, Jason. Bye, everyone. Thank you so much.